Posts by Lee Elder

My JW grandmother died after refusing blood so the issue has always
been of concern to me. In 1990 my family physician asked me some tough
questions about the use of blood fractions that I could not answer. I didn't think too much of it at the time. 3 years before that my grandfather (not a JW) pressed me very hard about the blood issue - I think he was concerned about losing both a wife and a grandaughter. In 1995 my wife had serious surgerey but managed without blood - later that same year another physician cornered me again on the blood issue - this time on the internet. That was the beginning of the end for me.
The chance on the "generation" doctrine had compelled me to take the blinders off.

Lee

14

Killing Children= Save Organization

by metatron in

jw
friends

recently, the vile, reptilian character of the governing body slipped through their slick propaganda again.. i refer to a recent "new outline/public talk" in which a teenager.

with leukemia is mentioned - and a recent watchtower article.

about special meetings with pictures of gb members - that also.

Lee Elder

Interesting – bear in mind that there are varying levels of commitment to the blood policy among JWs at all levels of the organization. There is also a "Catch-22" at work here. The more the support for the policy "dries up", the more the organization – particularly the governing body - are criticized for making changes/reforms. Consequently, the tougher it becomes to make further changes. I don't like the dynamic but I don't like getting older and can't do much about either. We have to work with what life gives us.

This item caught my eye because mention of the resurrection is frequently made by JWs who are beginning to doubt the blood policy, in my experience, and the discussion lays additional necessary groundwork for change on the blood policy. I'd like to see the outline if anyone has access to it.

Lee

34

Tough Question for ExElders...

by Xena in

jw
friends

with a friend suddenly confronted with the prospect of being disfellowshiped recently it got me wondering about how an elder feels the first time he disfellowships someone.. the first time you disfellowshiped someone was there regret?

sadness?

or a sense of justice?.

Lee Elder

The first time you disfellowshiped someone was there regret? sadness? or a sense of justice?

This was about 15 years ago so the memories are not vivid but I recall feeling sad. This was a young sister you had become pregnant by her "worldy" boy friend. We had reproved her but she ended up with him again a short time later. No sense of justice just the feeling of having to carry out an unpleasant task.

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Did you have doubts as to your qualifications to be making this decision?

Don't recall that - too brainwashed at the time.

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Were you nervous, was there any doubt in your mind at all that this was the right decision?

Don't recall having any real doubt about the situation since we had recently reproved her for the same conduct.

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When it was over did you feel like God's Spirit had helped in the decision making?

Not really.

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Recently ran ito this gal and her daughter and had a nice visit with her. She seemed pretty surprised that my wife and I were willing to talk with her. Sad to hear that her daughter is studying. Getting out was probably the best thing that could have happened to the sister. She seems to be doing well.

Lee

5

Belief in God ( The Problem with Evil) Correction

by JT in

jw
friends

my wife and i are back in school again and we are in a philosophy class and the issue of god has come up in the research material and the following is under consideration for us- .

being involved in trying to explain the reason that god permits wickness i find the explanation that i use to use from the platform as a jw to be very weak to say the least .

yet i find that it is the same basic explantion given by most "beleivers" and it too is weak as tea.

Lee Elder

If the Watchtower made a serious attempt to allow for this type of discussion, I might still be actively associated ;-)

Part of the problem is trying to tackle the issue when you begin the discussion with something to protect or insisting that the conclusion falls within the orthodoxy of revealed religion. The process is tainted from the outset.

That said, we are free to believe as we wish and its no one's business but our own. The difficulty arises when we fail to accord this same respect to others as is so often the case when we assert that our belief is correct and attempt to prove it. This is one of the great pitfalls of most revealed religions.

Deism offers a reasonable explanation to the problem of evil - perhaps the best. Among the Theistic arguments I've read, the best seem to be that God is very powerful, knows many things and can do some very important things but does have limitations.

It seems to me that mankind possesses the ability to eliminate much of the evil in the world once we make that a priority. Indeed, much progress has been made on many fronts. This seems to be a natural process of human and societal evolution.

The Watchtower's attempts to deal with these issues are weak because their belief system is one of revealed religion. While the Bible is an enormoulsy important volume of ancient Hebrew writing, we've managed to learn quite a bit in recent centuries and any belief system that is going to hold up to serious scrutiny should probably be able to account for that which can be observed or what some term "natural" religion.

Then again, if it all made sense we wouldn't call it faith and there wouldn't be any need to "believe", would there ;-)

Fascinating stuff - good post.

Lee

11

A Young Girl Lives, Thanks to Ceasar

by messenger in

jw
friends

http://www.thestar.com/nasapp/cs/contentserver?pagename=thestar/layout/article_type1&c=article&cid=1014203908594&call_page=ts_world&call_pageid=968332188854&call_pagepath=news/world.

feb. 20, 06:06 edt .

court denies teen's religious objection to transfusion .

Lee Elder

10 years from now there is about a 50% chance that this girl will no longer be a JW anyway. She has a very good chance of surviving her leukemia these days - perhaps as high as 80 or 90%! At least now she will have a chance to finish growing up and learning the truth about the Watchtower and making her own choices as an adult. I like her chances.

The scary part of this story to me is the fact that the WTS is sooo quick to bring in their laywers to try and send these kids off to an early grave - its really disgusting. Especially when they are gutting the policy.

9

No hope for understanding the universe?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

is there no hope for truly understanding the universe?.

if a person believes that we were created by a supreme being who is in control of and fully understands the universe, he may reason that we were created with the ability to also understand the universe.. but if we are not created and have just evolved as part of a natural prosses why should we asume that our brain should have any grasp on a true understanding of things.. how can we know that our brains just are not in tune or cannot grasp any of the fundementaly important concepts that case this universe to exist?.

maybe in trying to understand the universe we are just tying ourselves up in knot trying to know the unknowable?

Lee Elder

I suggest you pick up a copy of Steven Hawking's new book,
"The Universe in a Nutshell", if you can find one. We've
learned a great deal about the universe in recent years.

Lee

14

Suicide yes, I have concidered it.

by Shane in

jw
friends

why would i want such a thing:.

i am lonely, and i know that most of the women who are jw's are concerned with them selves they want rich men with flashy clothes.. women who want prestige in the congregation saying look i got an elder for a husband see how he is taking the lead in my family in all things and giving talks at the assembles, i show him respect as man only because he has earned it in the fashion of a bride price.. thus the above relates to me to the extent my ex-wife got me to believe in all this negative crap, that i as a man was unworthy of god and my fellow members if i don't size up to all the religious do's and don'ts.. depression oh yeah i am that just like toy's r. us, traumatic brain injury then my a wonderful wife in good standing in the holy witness congregation of twenty-one years, dumps my sorry ass saying gee you have changed too much.

like duh, you have large portion of your brain stabbed and gouged from skull fragments and see if it does not confuse you or contribute to depressing you dear, of course no response she just goes and marries a known child molester of the congregation who then attempts it on my twelve year old daughter.. oh there's is much more so crazy you would think i was making it up, but who gives a flying crap, huh.. ~shane

Lee Elder

Those who know me personally know that I have dealt with serious illness for a very long time. That challenge has been compounded by serious illness with my wife and son. I suspect that most individuals who wake up day after day, year after year feeling poorly are going to consider suicide at some point. One of the interesting comments I read some time ago on this subject defined suicide as what happens when one's coping resources exceed the level of pain in their lives. From this perspective the solution appears clear and straightforward - reduce the pain or increase the coping resources - either can work.

Unfortunately, there are some individuals with circumstances that cannot be improved and in fact are deteriorating - generating more and more pain with the progression of time. This is both heart breaking for the person and those around them.

The one remaining alternative in these situations is to increase coping resources and there are plenty of examples we can point to where individuals have successfully been able to do this despite dealing with incredible amounts of pain in their lives. At some point quality of life comes into the picture but that is another post.

I am reminded of something written many years ago that expresses my feelings quite well:

"John Quincy Adams is well but the house in which he lives at the present time is becoming delapidated. It's tottering on its foundations. Time and the seasons have nearly destroyed it. Its roof is pretty well worn out. Its walls are much shattered and tremble with every wind. I think John Quincy Adams will have to move out of it soon. But he himself is quite well, quite well."

John Quincy Adams 1767-1848

Be well,

Lee

30

Remaining in Association with Jehovah's W...

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

remaining in association with jehovahs witnesses .

an active baptized member of jehovahs witnesses finds significant errors taught in the central publication of the religion, the watchtower journal.

the error is taught with frequency in private and public settings arranged by the religion.

Lee Elder

Thank you for a well thought out, well-written post. AJWRB would consider publishing such an article. This is an incredibly complex subject and I believe that there are other some other factors that also have an important bearing on the personal decision each must make. I had a very interesting discussion of this subject with Ray Franz a couple of years ago. He related the experience of an elder who preferred option one. The problem was that the man's entire family - children and grandchildren - were all JWs. The elder's wife told him that she would kill herself if he disassociated himself and it was his judgement that this was no idle threat. Who would want to be responsible for suggesting a course of action that led directly to the death of someone else? The only reasonable course, in my view, is to reserve judgement and allow individuals to make the choice that seems best for them and their families.

Lee